Devallière H140 Threading problem

[Hari4]

Bon jour

Je suis nouveau dans le forum et ne pas parle malheureusement de français. J'essaye malgré tout de traduire le texte de DE après FR. S'il vous plaît, ils excusent mon à de mauvaises connaissances. Maintenant au mon problème. Je suis possède une banque rotative des Devalliére H140 avec la coupe de fil fonction. Si moi avec la coupe de fil installation (libérer de la boîte de boîte de vitesses (leviers à gauche à la boîte de frottement de GET) travaille, le fil est coupé et/ou la position de fil se déplace de sorte qu'aucun fil ne naît. Si je coupe toutefois ne libère rien dans les fils dans lesquels j'et coupe pour cela le sens de rotation à gauche et à droite à course, cela donne un bon fil. Un membre du forum a fait des expériences semblables et pourrait s'aider. Beaucoup de merci beaucoup pour l'aide.

 

[deckelite]

Hallo Hari

Leider können wir *NICHTS* verstanden !
Sie wollen die Vorschub der 140 um Gewinde drehen zu benutzen ?
Vielleicht könnten sie uns ihr problem in english beschreiben ?
Ich hoffe daB mein deutch ein bissian besser als ihr fransösich ist
MfG

edit : Ich denke daB ich verstanden habe !
Der Hebel von Auskuppeln des Vorschubtgetriebes (oder die anschlägen) sollen nur für die folgenden Gewinden benutzt sein :
0.25mm, 0.30mm, 0.40mm, 0.50mm, 0.60mm, 0.75mm, 1.00mm, 1.20mm, 1.50mm, 2.00mm, 3.00mm et 6.00mm (und *NUR* um von Reitstock zum Futter zu drehen !)
Für alle andere Gewinden, sollen Sie die elektrische Verkehrung benutzen, um um Abfahrt nach jeder Vorlage zurückzukehren

 

[Yakovlev55]

Hi Hari, vieleicht wollen Sie es auf Deutsch schreiben, ich vermute dass wir es besser verstehen könnten, obwohl es sehr fun war sie auf französich zu lesen.
Ich habe auch eine De Vallière H140 so werden wir sicher das Problem lösen.
Mfg
Martin

 

[pierrepmx]

Salut,

je ne parle pas trop allemand (une honte: ma mère est alsacienne, a même brièvement été prof d'allemand, et j'ai entendu parler en "dialecte" alsacien et en allemand toute mon enfance )

C'est un problème de filetage ?

Le mieux est de mettre à la fois le texte original allemand ET la traduction Google en français .
(Si quelqu'un pouvait traduire cette proposition pour notre ami Hari....)

Ceux versés dans la langue de Goëthe pourront ainsi mieux comprendre et apporter leur aide, et les autres pourront essayer de "décoder" le charabia Google

 

[Yakovlev55]

Bonjour Pierremx; c'est ce que je proposais a Hari, dans la langue de Goethe, j'essayerai de traduire, dans la mesure de mes connaissances.
Cordialement
Martin

 

[deckelite]

En fait c'est simple : Hari explique qu'il n'arrive pas à fileter en utilisant le levier d'inverseur car il ne retombe pas dans le pas.

J'ai essayé de lui dire que ce levier, tout comme les butées, ne pouvait être utilisé que pour certains pas (et uniquement pour fileter dans le sens contrepointe > mandrin) et que pour tous les autres, il fallait qu'il revienne au départ après chaque passe en utilisant l'inversion électrique.

 

[Yakovlev55]

Bonjour Deckelite, en effet c'est ce qui semblait ressortir de sa prose, mais comme j'en étais pas sur, je lui demandais de nous contacter en allemand. De toute manière, ta réponse est parfaitement explicite.
Cordialement
Martin

 

[lusi]

Alors moi j'essaie

Hallo Hari

Leider haben wir *NICHTS* verstanden !
Sie wollen mit dem Vorschub der Drehmaschine Devallière H140 Gewinde drehen.
Bitte beschreiben Sie Ihr Problem in English .
Ich hoffe daB mein Deutsch ein bisschen besser als ihr Fransösich ist.
MfG

edit : Ich glaube daB ich verstanden habe !
Der Hebel von Auskuppeln des Vorschubtgetriebes soll nur für die folgende Gewinde benutzt werden :
0.25mm, 0.30mm, 0.40mm, 0.50mm, 0.60mm, 0.75mm, 1.00mm, 1.20mm, 1.50mm, 2.00mm, 3.00mm et 6.00mm Die Gewindegänge werden vom Reitstock zum Drehfutter geschnitten.Für alle andere Gewinde, sollten Sie die Drehrichtungsumkehr benutzen, um in den Gewindegang zurück zu kehren.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen. Lusi

Ich bin der Meinung dass Sie in Peters CNC Ecke besser aufgehoben sind.

 

[Hari4]

Bonjour

Thank you very much for all answers. Sorry for my bad French. So now I try to explain my problem with the Devalliere H140. If I would like to produce a thread on the lathe, so I have two possibilities to do this.

First possibility:
Look the tool slide, adjust the thread pitch, start the threading process by the current switch to start electro motor. The start and stop of thread cutting is controlled true through direction of lathe rotation (work piece). That work well and is ok.

Second possibility:
Look the tool slide, adjust the thread pitch, start the threading process by the current switch to start electro motor.
Turn the lever in front gearbox from middle position to the right and start thread cutting (moving tool slide) direction headstock. To stop thread cutting, and go back to the thread start position, turn lever from the right position to the left position and start cutting process again.

The Problem is now, that the tool slide is nod in the correct position for the next thread cut. So that mean’s, that the thread will be blended.

Have somebody experience why I have this problem and what can I do?

Thank you very much for your support.

I hope my English is a understandable.

Best regard Hari4

 

[deckelite]

Hari

The DeVallière 140 feedbox allows to pick up certain threads *ONLY*

Those threads are 0.25mm, 0.30mm, 0.40mm, 0.50mm, 0.60mm, 0.75mm, 1.00mm, 1.20mm, 1.50mm, 2.00mm, 3.00mm et 6.00mmn (multiples of the leadscrew pitch of course)

For those threads and those threads only, you can stop the carriage and reverse it to start the next pass using the feedbox lever or the stop dogs. You will pick up the thread again without any problem, with the spindle running in the same direction all along the operation.
The 140 feedbox has a particular feature wich allows a fast reverse to starting point : when threading from tailstock to the chuck, the feedbox will work with the selected pitch. But on the way back to the starting point for the nedt pass, the feedbox will drive the leadscrew directly, whatever pitch you selected. That's why it is important to perform the threading operation only with the lever set on the right.

For any other thread, you must NOT disengage the nut from the leadscrew or you will loose the thread. So you have to stop the motor and reverse it to get the carriage back to the starting point.
I am not aware of the existence of a thread chasing dial for the DeVallière 140, although one could certainly be made from scratch without problem. The 6mm pitch of the leadscrew is pretty common.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hari4]

Thank you very much deckelite

I will try this over the weekend and inform.

Best regeards.

Hari

 

[Hari4]

Bonjour

Today I have tested thread cutting with gearbox on the lathe. I tried the 1mm and 1.5 mm pitch.

The tool slide moves back and forwards without problem and also the lever on the gearbox switch easy from the right to the left side.
Unfortunately the result is the same as my problem. The position of the pitch is moving all time. So after a couple gangways there is on thread on the bold, because the thread profile is cut off.

I think the problem is in the gearbox, but what can it be?

Have somebody made the same experience that I do?

Thanks for the answers.

Best regard Hari
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[deckelite]

Hari

Your problem has probably nothing to do with the feedbox itself. A feed box is a quite ON/OFF device ratio-wise. For a given pitch, either it will work, or not).

First of all, I would make sure the leadscrew axial play is correct (tighten the nut at the right end of the leadscrew, so that it rotates freely but without axial play).

Now if it does not cure your problem, look for something loose in the drivetrain between the spindle and the leadscrew.
If the position of the leadscrew is correct and there's no play, something is slipping somewhere. May be the friction between the elements is high enough so as to drive the carriage and lead you to believe everything's fine, but there's a small amount of slip and you're off when you try to pick up the thread again.
The first thing I would check is the presence and condition of the driving keys on the changewheels bewteen the headstock and feedbox).

May be you could perform the following test :
Engage a low spindle speed and select a pitch on the feedbox. Now turn the electric brake on.
Disengage the nut of the carriage from the leadscrew and try to rotate the leadscrew by hand.
In a perfect world, you should NOT be able to rotate the leadscrew relatively to the spindle (of course, you can expect to take up some play in the whole drivetrain and also some "spring" in it. Find a way to apply a reasonnable torque, as a broken or worn key or pin can still can generate a fair amount of friction and we're looking for evidences of slip in the drivetrain). If the leadscrew stays fixed relatively to the spindle, we'll have to look for something else.
If it moves, try to locate the slipping elements. You have your problem.

 

[Hari4]

Hello deckelite

Yesterday, I have found the fault. The selected pitch on the lathe was correct but the cut of the pitch was false. The reason was, one of the three gearwheel was wrong. This wheel had 70 cleats instead of 60 cleats. Now I have changed the wheel and now id work faultless. Ad this time I am also rebuild woodruff key in the lead screw and adjust axle floating. So I am very happy and thank you very much for your great support. I wish you a very nice Christmas and a happy new year. Best regards Hari

 

[deckelite]

You're welcome !
It's always nice to hear about a french machine in the country of Deckel, Maho, Weiler, Leinen, Boley and so much more !

As for the wrong changewheel, I would never have thought about it !