Oerlikon de0a

  • Auteur de la discussion jpevner
  • Date de début
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Bonsoir. Je viens de rejoindre votre forum, et il semble très agréable. J'ai récemment acquis un Oerlikon de0A tour, qui a été fortement modifiées par l'utilisateur précédent, et je suis en train de le restaurer. Certaines parties sont manquantes, et le train d'engrenages extérieur a été changé. Autre que cela, il seeems en bon état. Ils sont presque jamais vu ici aux Etats-Unis.

Si quelqu'un a un manuel, ou même quelques photos du train de changement de vitesse, je l'apprécierais. Si je peux le comprendre, je vais poster une photo.

ce qui concerne,


Jon

post-scriptum Cela se traduit par Google, donc j'espère que ça ne vient pas trop étrange.

stage 1.jpg
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Fennec;

Merci beaucoup!

Il va me falloir un certain temps à traduire, mais il sera utile.

Il ya quelques différences dans ma machine dans le document. Mais, je suis très préoccupé au sujet de la fin d'engrenage. Ma machine a beeen spécialement modifiés, et il ne ressemble pas à e equadrant est la bonne. Il a été broyé, et ne ressemblent pas aux photos. Un grand engrenage étrange a été ajouté et le couvercle découpé à l'accueillir. Le manuel ne semble pas montrer l'agencement d'engrenage par défaut.

Ce serait une grande aide pour savoir ce que les engrenages sont sur ​​une machine standard, et pour voir une photo de leur arrangement.


Ma machine a des lectures pouces sur le chariot transversal et d'un composé. La broche est camlock et le moteur est la SPE trois

le style éd. Je ne suis pas sûr de la puissance. Est-ce "ps"?

Il ya aussi un mécanisme d'alimentation bien ajoutée à la diapositive croix avec des marques de 0,00001 pouce!
Je vais obtenir des photos samedi. La machine est à une entreprise d'amis pour le moment.


ce qui concerne,
Jon
 
F

Fennec

Apprenti
Well, I think it will be most understandable if you post in English, because google tools have some limits.
Do you talk about external / additional gears ?
Basically there is no gears (on mine, I don't need to add those gears to use the mother screw), you can refer on page 39 and 35 of the pdf to see how to use the external gears. It's only for special threads.
On mine, all are in mm. Other points, on your's, your mother screw seems modified, and the automatic advance is missing (Including clutch shift)

Yes, the power should be the value in PS (but be careful, 1 PS equal 735 W), I have changed the motor by one 6 kW

Kind regards
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Ok, I will post in English.

So, when you open the lefthand cover, you have no gears at all? And you can still thread/feed.
The picture in the manual shows some gears on the outside but doesn't cal out their sizes. I also see where it shows how to compute for different gears. But is there no standard set? Hopefully, I can send a picture which will explain my concern.

Yes, I have no feed or control rod. I hope these are standard keyed shafts. I probably can get metric sized ones in US. I also need to get the camlocks for the spindle.

Does anyone still sell Oerlikon parts anymore? I don't think the company makes lathes now, and most only a few in US still support their old equipment. That is the problem with buying old equipment!

Also, there is no thread dial? How do you thread without one? Just keep the halfnuts always engaged?

I have looked over and over at your restoration. Beautiful work!

I have done that for Monarch 10EE here.


regards,

Jon P.
 
A

ankh41

Apprenti
Bonjour à tous!

Hello Jon, You said "I have done that for Monarch 10EE here."

Wonderfull Lathe! :smt007 Unfortunatly very few know in France.

Do you have some pictures of your restoration work? :-D

Regards,
Phil.
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Phil;

Not to hijack my own thread, but here is a picture for you.

monarch1.jpg
 
A

ankh41

Apprenti
Thanks Jon!

Never seen a picture of this lathe in black color :shock: Not really the best color for it in my opinion :???:
I really like the red one, with its curvy shape....it looks :smt055

Regards,
Phil.
 
F

Fennec

Apprenti
Hello John,

Yes, when I open the lefthand cover, it's empty. I can do all kind of threads of the table with the main gear box.
And yes ever let the nut engaged when threading. Just go backward at the end of the thread.

As you said, Oerlikon don't build machines anymore. So it become hard to find new original parts.
If you need I can take measurement of keyshafts.

PS: Nice work on the Monarch, do you have a picture on his original state ? :partyman:
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Fennec & Phil;

If I can find a photo of the Monarch "before" I will post it. I lost a lot of photos in a disk crash :sad:

These machines, made during World War II, all had a simple grey finish with no body filler to speed up production.

On the Oerlikon;

Yes, I have removed the gear quadrant and change gears, and can now select all the internal gear ranges (which are good enough for me).

Now I have to:

1) Make a pulley, it was removed and replaced with a flat belt style.

2) Find some kind of oil pump/reservoir for the headstock. My lathe has only two ports in the back, not three like the manual. So I suspect it had an
external electric pump. There is a note with it, saying it was removed. Why, I don't know!

3) Find some spindle cams for D1-5. They were removed, and only the meter 50 taper was used. What is meter 50?? Is it the same as an ISO 50 milling tool?

4) Replace the three control rods/handles. One for the clutch, one for the power feed, and one for leadscrew reverse.
Fennec, Yes, I would like measurements if you could. I hope they are standard metric keyed shafts?

5) Do something about the cross-feed. The acme screw has been replaced with what looks like 3/4-20 national extra fine, and it is coupled to a gear reduction. It is very stiff, and theer is no way to adjust/align the nut.

Also, I don't think it has a gear for cross feed on it! After the modification, it wasn't used.

6) make some sort of top for the compound. It has strange holes cut in the top, and no way to attach a tool post. Most lathes in US have a t-slot.

Enjoy lathe! - This will all take me a long time.

Interesting note: Even thhough the speed chart goes to 1800, my lathe has a roller bearing at front, not a plain broze bearing, so should be good for about 2800.

Fennec; I have no hope of finding new parts at all. Maybe somewhere in Europe there is a junker somewhere ( hope,hope,hope). I think there might be at most two lathes like this in US.

This was a lot easier with the monarch. They are common as dust here.


regards

Jon P.

headstock.jpg


top_compound.jpg
 
F

Fennec

Apprenti
Hi Jon,
I have fast measured the keyshaft, here are dimenssions.
Hope it will be a standard keyshaft.

Keyshaft.jpg
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Fennec; merci beaucoup!

I don't think that is a standard keyseat from what I can find on the internet. Which of the rods was that, or were they all the same?

regards,

Jon P.
 
F

Fennec

Apprenti
Hello,
Yes they are both the same. Only the length change I think but you have to measure it on your lathe.
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Does anyone know what meter 50 taper is? I can't find any reference on the internet.

regards,

Jon P.
 
P

pierrepmx

Compagnon
Hi Jon,

this is a Metric Taper 50.

Metric tapers are defined by their larger end diameter and a "slope".
5% tapers (aka 1:20) are standardized.

Metric 5% tapers were found on a small number of french (and european ?) made lathes, back in te 60's-70's (RAMO T36, H.Ernault-Somua AC280).
It was a failed attempt to settle a new standard based on SI units, that would also be "cleaner" than the ubiquitous morse taper (each MT size having an arbitrarily different taper ratio).

P.S. 10% tapers are extremely rarely found on lathes.

It should be possible to machine a Metric 50 to MT 4 adapter (maybe MT 5), either from scratch, or based on an off-the-shelf MT6->MT4 (MT5) adapter.
A cylindrical grinder is best suited for this job.
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Pierre; Thank you very much. Yet another strange lathe taper.I am not surprised, as I think the lathe was designed in this time period. I tried to look on German e-bay, but found nothing. I would need a dead center, and a would like a 5c collet taper, otherwise I would have to use a camlock mount collet holder(D1-5). There should be enough size for 5c, since Morse 5 allows it. So many unusual things about this lathe, but so well built. From time to time, US builders would use a strange taper as well. Monarch 10EE is a Jarno taper, but the world seems to have standardized on Morse.

regards,

Jon P.
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Pierre;

Thank you very much. That clears up the mystery. This taper is completely unknown in US.

regards,

Jon
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
I will look for some Jarno 16, but it is kind of rare as well.

Jon P.
 
P

pierrepmx

Compagnon
jpevner a dit:
I will look for some Jarno 16, but it is kind of rare as well.

Jon P.
Cliquez pour agrandir...
Yes Jon,

I finally reached the same conclusion !

Some random thougths and infos :

  • I found http://www.millermachineandfabrication.com/products.html
    They seem to machine custom taper adapters.
  • BTW, it's not impossible to make one on your Monarch 10EE.
    Using the right cutting tools and a rather high tensile strength steel (40CD4(S) or 42CD4, i.e. no heat treatment required), deformations should be kept to a minimum.
  • Finally, having a MT6 to MT4 sleeve adaptator professionnally regrinded at a local shop could cost much less than buying an "exotic" adaptor - if you ever find one!

Just for the "fun" ...
"Jarno Cylindrical Taper Plug Without TANG" : $788
Ouch !

http://www.threadcheck.com/jarno-cylindrical-taper-plug-w-tang-6000-tpf-16/cylindrical-taper-gages/

Good luck :wink:
 
Dernière édition par un modérateur:
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Well, I have found some camlocks for another lathe, and they fit on the oerlikon. So, I put a few on, and attached a 3-jaw chuck. I will of course put them all on before spinning it up. After cleaning my basement shop up, I am now ready for the lathe to come to its new home. I must now arrange for a truck to deliver it from my friend's shop to mine.In US, this is very expensive.

I am also looking at cutting grooves in the aluminum disc that was used for a flat belt. The lathe expects a taper and tapered key for the pulley. Does anyone know the correct belt size and original pulley diameter.

Also, I need to find a small pump and a reservoir to replace the missing headstock lube pump. It must have been electric, not like the built-in pump on earlier models. All that is left, is the magnetic fileter.

regards,

Jon P.

chuck.jpg
 
J

JieMBe

Compagnon
Salut,

J'ai retrouvé aujourd'hui un adaptateur qui traînait dans un tiroir. Il me semble que c'est un adaptateur métrique 5% de 50mm vers CM4. En espérant qu'il puisse un jour servir à quelqu'un.

Today I found an adapter in a drawer. I think it is a 50mm metric to MT4 adapter. Hoping he might be useful to someone one day.

JMB

adaptateur.jpg
 
F

Fennec

Apprenti
I will look for the pulley the next time I go to my workshop :)
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Update:

The lathe is in my house!! That's the good news, now the not so good news.

When I connected the 380 volts the contactor buzzed a lot, also the motor made some odd noises, and got more noisy as time went on.

I didn't see any place to lube the motor end bearing. So, I loosened the rear plate to get at the motor. it started to tilt out, and one of the lifting bolts broke. Ouch! I can make a new one easy enough.

However, when I had access to the motor I couldn't get the pulley off to get at the bearing. I tried using a puller, but it wouldn't move, I had taken out the screw at the end of the shaft, and a friend suggested turning a bolt into it, to force the pulley off. I used a high strength bolt, but it snapped :mad:

So, is there a hidden screw anywhere to take it off? I am in a tough spot now. I did loosen the end plate of the motor as much as I could(only a small gap, and I can see the bearing grease has dried out.)

The motor (the Schindler three speed) is colossal for only 7.5 HP!

regards,

Jon P.

p.s. pmb That adapter could be useful for line boring, the one I'd most like to c is MT50 to 5C, or even 3J
 
F

Fennec

Apprenti
jpevner a dit:
Update:

The lathe is in my house!! That's the good news, now the not so good news.

When I connected the 380 volts the contactor buzzed a lot, also the motor made some odd noises, and got more noisy as time went on.

I didn't see any place to lube the motor end bearing. So, I loosened the rear plate to get at the motor. it started to tilt out, and one of the lifting bolts broke. Ouch! I can make a new one easy enough.
Cliquez pour agrandir...

Hello Jon,
I made the same mistake :)
Here you can get my drawing for a new lifting bolt (Metric size)

For your pulley on the motor, there was no hidden screw on mine. Hope it's the same for you. But I remember I had to heat the pulley with a camping gas torche to extract it with an extractor !

kind regards Voir la pièce jointe Vis_moteur.pdf
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Fennec;

Thanks for the drawing, that wasn't a particularly good design on someone's part. How can the motor possibly be that big and weigh so much??

I need to get the renains of the bolt out, and then to the torch!. Hopefully, I can do it this weekend.

regards,

Jon
 
J

jpevner

Nouveau
Well, it's been a long while because of new employment, but I am very slowly working on this lathe. I took the motor apart, and cleaned, inspected, regreased the bearings. It is now ready to be put back in the lathe.

regards,

Jon P.
 
V

Vergobretos

Compagnon
Добрый день, ущерб обмениваясь на английском языке, форумы обработки на английском языке в качестве англофонов!
Он был бы действительно, чтобы все смогли принять участие, не был бы тем, что простым чтением.
Это - цель форума
сердечно
 
D

deckelite

Compagnon
L'anglais est bien plus facile pour moi, et sans doute pour bien d'autres, que certains passages de français traduits par Google...
Je reconnais que le premier post était assez bluffant, mais dès le second, il faut vraiment se tordre le cerveau pour comprendre ce qu'on lit.
Just my 0.02 :wink:
 
V

Vergobretos

Compagnon
Bonjour,
Ce que je disais:
Il est dommageable de s'exprimer en anglais, d'autres forums en langue anglaise existent déjà. Il serait bien pour que tous prennent part, ne serait-ce que la simple lecture de partager en français.
c'est le but du forum.
Cordialement
 
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